The faster it spins, the more force it provides, which causes the fluid to flow faster and harder. ), This cookie was set if you clicked the "Disable Google Analytics Tracking" link to prevent the Google Analytics service from tracking your use of the Ate Up With Motor website. You can hide the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box and prevent the loading of its embedded content by going to the "Consent Management" tab and switching the "Allow PayPal Button" toggle to "OFF." Being a fluid coupler, your car's torque converter relies on transmission fluid to operate correctly. For example, in park, it will say Desired Slip 1200, Actual: 730 (guess the engine rpm) As speed increases, the Desired Slip drops (don't remember exact numbers) as well as the actual. When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. But Ive never heard of anyone going that route. The reason for increasing stall speed is directly related to the engine's torque curve. T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip - EFILive The issues of slippage and heat are the main reasons that street converters should be approached with a serious amount of compromise when it comes to stall speed. You must be at least 18 to comment. It stayed there(18.24) from 60mph to 90 when I let off of it. The information below will outline the most common torque converter issues and their solutions. Your email address will not be published. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. The DG series transmissions were notionally three-speed automatics (although early iterations were designed to start in second gear) with a torque converter lockup clutch. It is the lack of fluid that causes overheating, slipping, or shuddering. You've now repaired or replaced your torque converter if it exhibited any of the above common torque converter problems. As an example, replace your spark plugs if they are original, replace air filter, replace PCV valve. The one-way stator clutch (fuchsia) allows the stator (light blue) to freewheel in the direction of engine rotation, but reverse rotation locks the stator against the fixed stator shaft (dark gray), providing torque multiplication under some conditions. (author diagram). Most street cars cannot keep the rear tires from spinning if you add too much throttle, and this tends to limit the stall speed. Torque converter slip question I was monitoring some Torque converter params for my 4R55E with my in dash scantool. I believe it is labeled as TQSLIP(rpm) under Ford Specific PID's. In fact, Cadillacs chief engineer ordered an early Daimler Double Six with the Wilson and Laurence Pomeroys Fluid Flywheel for evaluation purposes. Achieving a true 1:1 speed relationship between the turbine and the impeller is not possible with a non-lockup torque converter since it is still a fluid coupling. The wp-donottrack_feed cookie, which controls a blog feed, was set by accessing the dashboard menu for the WP DoNotTrack plugin (which we do not currently use on this website); this cookie normally expires in about one year. sir im having an issue with my 93 f150 aod. We were wrong. If you shop at Amazon.com (for anything), use this link to support FordFlex.net! Happens roughly 1-3 times in 30 mile drive at speeds of up to 60mph, and much more frequent at highway speeds (70+). Well done and thank you; this must have been an enormous amount of work. The car has just under 77k miles. The mount on the transmission side (under the battery) was severely damaged, the rubber legs inside the bushing were torn through and was allowing a lot of engine movement. Studebaker-Packard (the two companies merged in 1954) dropped both of these transmissions after the 1956 model year. Comments may be moderated. by SirHandyMan Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:43 am, Post (PayPal.com, PayPal, and all logos related to the PayPal services are either trademarks or registered trademarks of PayPal, Inc. or its licensors. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Sep 16, 2013 #11 4 Many aftermarket companies offer performance lockup torque converters that can provide a higher stall speed without sacrificing the advantages of the lockup converter for highway use. The cookies are not set at all unless you select that option when submitting a comment. The stator is called the middleman because it serves as the conduit that reverses transmission fluid and sends it back to a turbine impeller. I took it to my mechanic and he too found nothing wrong. This is due in part to the technological advances in torque converters. works great no real problems. With automated hydraulic operation and combinations of brakes and clutches, it was possible to get the same results more efficiently. This is most noticeable from about 1200-1800 rpm. Wallace Racing BACK to Auto Math. To avoid stalling or lugging the engine, the clutch would automatically disengage if road speed fell below 13 mph (21 km/h). Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:54 pm, Post The rear planet carrier is attached to the main shaft, which is also splined to the lockup clutch and drives the rear oil pump and governor (medium green). but my truck has 25k on it and 10k tuned.. so im thinking mines not on the way out and its got 20rpm slip. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Could be your TCC Solenoid, Re: Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Could be your TCC Solenoid, https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.co 733.0.html. The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. The only problem - there's a boat-load of information and I only know how to interpret a fraction of it. Your IP: If you change certain aspects of the site's appearance using the accessibility sidebar, it may set these cookies to manage and remember your settings. Another fascinating article, thank you for all your effort! Utimately, I installed a recycled transmission from a junk yard and a remanufactured torque converter from Ford. It ran pretty good. A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. It's not more specific because stall speed is highly dependent upon engine torque. With no slip at all. I had just bought an SCT with Gearhead tunes. When you coast in gear, the transmission attempts to drive the engine crankshaft, whose inertia causes a braking effect. I switched from a junk converter slipping that much to a tight well built version and picked up .3 and 4mph behind a healthy smallblock (10.2's at 127mph) Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. But this shuttering is not caused by a disease. One way to minimize coupling slip is to supplement the fluid clutch with a plate clutch that engages when the vehicle reaches cruising speed. iThemes is one of the Liquid Web family of brands; iThemes and Liquid Web are trademarks of Liquid Web, LLC.). Primary symptom includes a "rumble strip" like sound randomly while driving at speeds of about 40+. If it does go let us know. If you correctly enter the password, the site saves this cookie on your device to allow you access to the password-protected post or page. To fix the problem, you need to discover the seal that's damaged and have it replaced. I checked for codes and had none that explained why it happened. As youll see if you look at the first one, the original iteration had three speeds forward and one reverse, for which it requires four epicyclic gearsets. A multi-disc clutch can lock that carrier to the front sun gear, which is also attached to the rear brake drum (dark red). In certain cases, multiple iterations of either or both of these cookies may be set. Once governor pressure was sufficient to overcome the combined spring and throttle valve pressure, oil would be applied to the clutch cylinder, engaging the lockup clutch. The turbine drives the front annulus through the input shaft (medium blue). This is a red flag that lets you know you may need an expert to repair it for you. Opening the throttle further could delay engagement to a maximum of 56 mph (90 km/h). but the question is when i put my buddys obd code finder on it. I just checked it yesterday and it was right at the full indicator with the transmission properly warmed up. Unless you have tune that keeps the converter unlocked, the converter should've locked. Once your torque converter starts failing, you need to be knowledgeable about what torque converter problems will disable your car? Wallace Racing - Converter Slip Calculator Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our Comment Policy please read it first! Vehicle weight is another major factor that should be considered when selecting a converter. Anyway, I downloaded FORscan on my laptop and loaded several pids for the transmission. The confusion stems from the symptoms of a failing transmission, and a failing torque converter is very similar and linked. There will typically be several such cookies, each beginning with "gdpr" (e.g., gdpr[allowed_cookies], gdpr&5Bprivacy_bar&5D, and gdpr[consent_types]). by Silver Flex SEL. (If you need to review or change these settings after you accept, you can do so from the Privacy Tools page.) Doesn't seem to coincide with vehicle shifting though. However, even at coupling stage, the turbine still turns somewhat slower than the impeller. Remember, you don't experience either symptom unless you have the wrong amount of fluid or the wrong fluid in the transmission. JavaScript is disabled. Basically, the fluid exits the center of the turbine and is redirected by the stator back into the impeller. Most street torque. The transmission fluid is an important part of the torque converter in that it is used to provide the fluid coupling and smooth starts and without stalling the engine when the vehicle is stopped in gear. Packard achieved that goal by treating the engagement of the lockup clutch like an automatic gear change. Think of it as two fans facing eachother inside an enclosure. 6 speed/8 speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T43, T76, T87) T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip. There was also a kickdown mechanism that allowed the driver to disengage the clutch at road speeds between 13 and 56 mph (21 and 90 km/h) by flooring the accelerator, allowing the torque converter to again multiply torque. As you can see I was experiencing multiple issues, all of which were exacerbating the clutch slippage and/or shuddering issue. Advertising - RPM. Turbine Input Speed Sensor. - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum The car became basically undriveable. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. That isnt true of a fluid clutch, whose torus members are free to rotate at different speeds. Unlike Ultramatic and many subsequent torque converter automatics, the converter of the DG series was completely inoperative in top gear, so obtaining any additional torque multiplication required a downshift to second gear. A forum community dedicated to Ford Power Stroke owners and enthusiasts. Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:22 am, You need to be a member in order to post a reply, Not a member? (These cookies are not usually set for administrative users, since comments they submit while logged in are associated with their user ID number and user profile information rather than a manually entered name and email address.). By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Stall speed is measured in the car by applying the brakes and revving the engine in First gear against the brakes. (At present, this setting does NOT affect the payment or donation buttons that may appear on portions of the site's administrative dashboard, nor does hiding the box affect any cookies that may have already been set). Also, engaging a lockup clutch will prevent a torque converter from multiplying torque. The replacement was a cheaper and somewhat simpler Borg-Warner unit which Studebaker-Packard called Flightomatic that deleted the DGs lockup clutch. Fluid clutches fluid couplings and torque converters have many advantages for automotive transmissions, but with those benefits comes a cost: fuel-wasting hydraulic slippage even at cruising speed. Therefore, a lockup clutch needs to be accompanied by some mechanism to selectively engage or disengage the clutch. It may not display this or other websites correctly. For example, if engine speed is 2,500 rpm, the turbine might only turn 2,375 rpm: hydraulic slippage of 5%. There are many different types oftorque converter problems. If the fluid becomes contaminated, anything that uses and relies on the fluid can be damaged. I would suggest starting with the transmission upper mount and also a transmission fluid drain and fill. When it comes to automatic-equipped street machines and drag-race cars, the torque converter is a welded-up magic box that few enthusiasts know much about. Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool By changing the angle of the impeller blades, the torque-converter manufacturer can create a converter that generates a given stall speed with a certain torque multiplication. 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Gears Magazine - Nag 1/722.6 P0741 TCC Slip When that connection is fully engaged, the fluid clutchs torus members are effectively locked together they must turn together at engine speed and transmit no torque. We arent saying 10RPM of slip is bad, what we are saying is that seems to be the progression point of going out. Each PayPal payment or donation button may also incorporate a tracking pixel called "pixel.gif" (which loads from paypalobjects.com). Your car will vibrate even when youre not going very fast. Thanks for copying the information from my other post here. The torque converter clutch is always slipping somewhere between 5% to 95% when engaged, which depends on vehicle speed and engine load.. We discussed the information to monitor on the scan tool, there is an actual slip, desired slip, and TCC status. Because of the lack of traction and limited tires, it's not critical that a street engine launch at peak-torque rpm. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. It stays between 0 and 5 RPM when locked. The effective dates of the current versions are: Paid advertisements and/or sponsored links on Ate Up With Motor will be identified with words such as "Sponsor," "Sponsors," "Sponsored Link(s)," "Sponsored Content," "Ad," "Advertisement," "Advertisement(s)," or "Paid Promotion" (and/or by images or icons containing such words). If you are experiencing shuddering, also check your engine mounts. Well, I thought I did explain that in my reply post. This is not an official website of any automaker or automotive brand! Most Torque Converters today also use a friction clutch to lock up the converter at higher speeds to create more fuel efficiency and less slip. It's all about creating an overall tuned package that complements the rest of your car. If the payment button is visible, it may set the third-party cookies PYPF (via paypalobjects.com, which is owned by PayPal, Inc.), which appears to check whether or not you are a logged-in PayPal user, possibly to facilitate the PayPal user login process, and/or 01A1 (via abmr.net, which is owned by Akamai Technologies), which stores certain technical information about your device and browser (or other user agent), possibly to facilitate the login and shopping cart functions. The first automatic transmissions employed what was called a fluid coupling to connect the crankshaft with the transmission. Off.).) Think of a lock TC as the clutches in your tranny. Accessing certain posts or pages on this website may require you to enter a specific password. These a11y cookies normally expire after about seven days, but are removed immediately if you restore the applicable settings to their default values. Torque Converter Clutch Low Slip Speed Detection and Control The wire chaffing is a definite possibility. I would be surprised if this is your issue at 81,000 miles. scheme, but it does contribute. But once they are damaged, you will experience fluid leaks. The space ahead of the clutch formed a hydraulic cylinder containing an annular steel piston that acted as a pressure plate. Forum. So I picked up a scan tool to save on the abundant diagnosing fees associated with owning a 2005 5.4 f150. Your car's automatic transmission has a torque converter. For additional technical information about the cookies used by the analytics service, see their "Google Analytics Cookie Usage on Websites" page; for your reference when reviewing that page, we did not use Google Analytics 4. Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. AAMCO Centers are independently owned and operated. In addition, all page headers, custom graphics, button icons, and scripts related to the PayPal services are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of PayPal. That could be within the margin of error for the sensor. Second, consider draining and filling the transmission a few times since you can't get all the fluid out with just one drain/fill cycle. Reaction torque locked the rear sun gear against the rear one-way clutch, driving the planet carrier and output shaft forward at 69.7% (1 / 1.44) of turbine speed. But the catch is that this torque multiplication doesn't last very long. Shifting to third gear was accomplished by engaging the torque converter lockup clutch. A converter that might have a stall speed of 5,000 rpm for a pure drag car would be completely miserable on the street. Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:39 am, Post The drive fan moves air across the blades of the driven fan (which is turned off). Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Ford Flex I never saw a problem with the converter, it never went over 3 to 4 RPM slippage at WOT with it locked. Any reading below 10 RPM slip is really errors in reading the sensors, not real slip. You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. Borg-Warner continued to sell the DG series for several more years to some non-U.S. customers, but U.S. automakers would not rediscover the lockup clutch for another 20 years. The payment button in the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box (and similar payment or donation buttons that may appear on portions of the administrative dashboard, which is not normally accessible except to logged-in administrative users) contains embedded content served by PayPal services. Do you want them slipping when driving? The annulus (purple) is held in reverse, idles in low, and rotates with the sun gears in direct drive. The Vimeo Cookie Policy also provides information about how Vimeo users can control the use of third-party analytics and/or advertising cookies in connection with embedded Vimeo video players. However, Wilson gearboxes were quite bulky and complex because the nature of their operation required a separate set of epicyclic gears for each ratio, including reverse. This and the GM automatic history are probably the most definitive descriptions of these technologies on the Internet, excepting pure design and engineering treatises. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Larger-diameter converters are usually more efficient and deliver less slippage, while smaller-diameter converters offer more stall speed and more slippage. A tracking pixel, sometimes known as a web beacon, is a tiny image file that loads from a remote server; it's a type of embedded content (as is the button itself, which loads from the same domain). 5r110 torque slip | Ford Power Stroke Nation would it work,yet throw out aod default codes. the only readings i got was for all the electronically controlled aod. Torque converter slip question - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums Click to reveal 10r80 Cars on the Dyno - TCC lock S or D - Mustang6G 91.234.33.200 The stator is called the middleman because it serves as the conduit that reverses transmission fluid and sends it back to a turbine impeller. Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics by Silver Flex SEL. You also need to move forward with viable options that will help you get your torque converter fixed. Turbine speed tends to fall behind impeller speed any time load increases (for example, when going up a steep grade) and an increase in engine speed doesnt immediately produce a corresponding increase in turbine speed. The TC is a viscous coupling. However, that clutch was used in a distinctly different way than was Packards. if you dont hammer on it everyday it will last you a long time.. my stock converter had 350 rpms of slip on It will read really high numbers until the converter is locked. One or more wp-saving-post cookies may be set while creating and/or editing posts or pages, to help manage version control and the autosave feature; these cookies normally expire after about 24 hours. ), These cookies were previously used by the Google Analytics service to collect information about visitors and their use of the Ate Up With Motor website. With Torque Pro torque slip shows it at 0-6 rpm at 60 mph and when coming to a stop it jumps to 25-40 rpm then raises to 1400+. The result will be every car will have efficient, smooth, and comfortable rides. Many times, people think there is something wrong with their transmission when the problem lies with their torque converter. With the advent of overdrive automatic transmissions like the TH200-4R, the TH700-R4/4L60E, the massive 4L80E, the Ford AOD, and all the rest, the new-car companies were striving for improved fuel economy using overdrive. At some point Ford modified the wiring to include a thick rubber insulator on the wires that extended beyond the edge of the intake manifold to prevent the chaffing. Once the vehicle is moving at a constant speed, the speed difference between the impeller and turbine diminishes, eventually reaching a minimum point known as coupling stage. Obviously some sort of mechanism would have been required to determine what gear to select and when to actually shift, but starting with a Wilson box at least some of the problems would have been solved. At idle and very low road speeds, slippage is desirable because it keeps the engine from stalling or lugging in gear. With the torque slip PID on the DashDAQ. 51.91.16.67 A flyweight 2,800-pound car like an early Mustang or Chevy II could use less multiplication to successfully launch on their relatively smaller rear tires.
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