(Ok, technically the Orthodox Church denies penal substitutionary atonement while affirming substitutionary atonement, but most people, including well-meaning Orthodox who deny substitution completely, are not familiar with this distinction.) All right. Fr. So thats what were going to do now. Its not like the priests are sitting there waiting, like I get to the end of vespers and sit and wait to see if anybodys going to come to confession. Hes wrapped about with a scarlet, Fr. Fr. If you think about it, this has to be the case. Fr. Were talking about atonement, and weve just taken a really whirlwind trip through the New Testament, just, I dont know, astonishingly beautiful stuff, looking at how Christ is both goats in the Day of Atonement ritual. And so thats one significant element of this eschatological Day of Atonement, and this is the one thats particularly emphasizedits all in Hebrewsbut this is particularly emphasized in the Johannine literature. and he has to suffer now and get sacrificed! Like, thats not [Laughter] Thats not what the Scripture actually depicts. Like, its lovely; its a very nice idea. Andrew: Okay, well, so related to that, actually, we have a caller. Andrew: Yeah, like the altar has be reconciled to God? Paul's "Works of the Law" in the Perspective of Second Century I can understand all that, and thats fun: figuring out all the details, all the systems, all the lore. Augh! That makes perfect sense. Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Ill take it. So, the reason why this battle is so important is because the Temple had been desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanesit wasnt Antiochus, was it? Two ancient sites, the Pergamon Altar in Berlin, as well as Rujum el-Hiri in the Golan Heights in Israel, will be included to demonstrate the possibility that these fallen ones may be loosed upon mankind during the time of the Time of Jacobs Trouble on earth. Andrew: I can hear you! Stephen, I know how dear this is to you. Stephen? Andrew: Dont you know that yalls body is the temple of the Holy Spirit? Stephen is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog. I did believe the doctrine of the Trinity was in the OT, but in a latent or implicit form. Stephen: At the end of his trial, he says they wrap a scarlet robe about him, which is kind of a weird way to describe putting a robe on. So theres this idea that works were being taught and handed down. Its also the Roman soldiers who are doing these Day of Atonement things in St. Matthews gospel. Does it have anything to do with suffering or punishment? Stephen: Theres a tendencyand this is not an indictment of anybody, because, I mean, Ive heard scholars whom I greatly respect publicly talk about, when theyre talking about sacrifices in the Old Testament, say, Oh, yeah, the priest would put the sins on the animal and then kill it, and Im like thats its just not there! But those were then publicly pronounced over that goat, and now that the goat has these sins on it, has the taint, the ontological taint from the peopleits sort of absorbed by that goatthat goat cant be sacrificed and cant be brought anywhere near the tabernacle, because now its totally unclean. I will not. Wright (Protestant) and Brant Pitre (Catholic) and others should give the Orthodox pause before too quickly assuming these types of historical considerations automatically vindicate the claims of Eastern Orthodox ecclesiology. Fr. Product details Publisher : Ancient Faith Publishing (October 18, 2021) Language : English Paperback : 160 pages ISBN-10 : 1955890048 ISBN-13 : 978-1955890045 Item Weight : 7.5 ounces He heals them, and thats how Matthew interprets that passage from Isaiah 53. They see this as a kind or type of atonement. Basically, you extract its blood. Fr. So we have again in Leviticus 16 a fair amount of detail describing exactly whats going on. Stephen De Young wraps up Chapter 5 of Romans. The Book of Enoch: Scripture, Heresy, or What? Stephen: Right, hes clarifying. Stephen De Young Archives - Rule of Faith He holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University and is the host of the The Whole Counsel of God podcast and co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast on Ancient Faith Radio. Fr. Stephen: And the next verse in 1 John, verse 13, says that the reason he killed Abel is that Abels works were good and Cains works were evil. Fr. So hes being directly connected. He is this desert spirit. No, I know what youre saying. Fr. We appreciate hearing from you. Okay, perfect example; this is probably the classic example: Matthew 27:25, where the people say in response to Pilate, His blood be upon us and upon our children. Now, given everything we just said about the blood of the goat, and given everything you should know if youre a Christian about what the blood of Christ does, if his blood is upon you, thats actually good. Dr. Stephen De Young is Pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church in Lafayette, Louisiana. The early Christians did not deduce the doctrine of the Trinity from the fact that they were worshiping Jesus, nor did they come up with Trinitarian theology as a way of buffering the Church against heresy. We talked a little bit about that. But that is a minor detail. Yeah, and then again Hebrews 10: How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of Godand heres the important part here, for our purposesand has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified and has outraged the spirit of grace. So, again, the blood of the covenant does this sanctification. Thats where the feast comes from, the feast of lights. Andrew Stephen Damick, Richard Rohlin, and Ancient Faith Radio. This goat, we dont know nothing. Stephen: Yeah. Andrew: Yeah, so this is really cool, and its a really I mean, this is a major kind of transitional thing happening here, where, as youve mentioned a number of times, that the sacrificial system of the Old Testament is basically kind of a management system, managing sin, managing corruption, managing taint and death, and so that what we get in the Second Temple literature is, as you said, once and for all, that theres going to be a Great Day of Atonement, to end them all, so to speak: the ultimate, the fulfillment of all of them. Not machines taking over and acquiring agency, and not machines evolving their own intentionality, but human beings creating a world customized for the flourishing of machines? Do Orthodox Christians have any teaching on atonement? There are sort of a handful, I think four or five, uses of it in the first century AD and later, and like half of those are by Plutarch, by one author. To him ascribe all sin. God Is a Man of War We will find that the only reading of the Bible that results in tall tales about "giants" is not a literal one but one which I call a theo-sci-fi eisegetical (pseudo) hermeneutic. And, one way or another, thats going to kill the goat. [Laughter] Yeah, but okay, okay, so it doesnt quite map. These. Andrew: Right. This video is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. Theyre not out in the wilderness; theyre not encamping in tents. So, it was good talking with you. Theres built in an understanding beforehand. Fr. You guys are all wrong! Item No. Hope for the Future and the Religion of the Apostles | with Fr. Stephen Furthermore, I will attempt to explicate theories on the origin of evil and provide the verses that were utilized to support these theories. Its not a big mystery. Fr. Fr. Stephen is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog. Consequently, I greeted the arrival of Fr. I think sometimes people take 1, 2, and 3 John as being like these little bonus bits toward the end of the New Testament before we get to the big, crazy dream-vision at the end. Dan: Yeah, yeah, thats really helpful. Fr. Stephen: Yeah, so this gets sort of double interesting, because not only do we have the made-up English word that is primarily reflecting, as you just described, an English concept than it is trying to reflect an original word The reason for that is the Greek word, ilasterion, doesnt occur anywhere that we still possess until Jewish folks start using it, meaning the Greek Old Testament and then works like Philo, Josephus, etc. Stephen: Right, so this then plays out through the early chapters of the book of Acts, the idea that everything has now been cleansed. Fr. For anyone who leaves the Orthodox faith for Protestantism, this becomes an easy issue to take up and throw stones back at the Orthodox Church. https://t.co/vM0ulUmY0s, More than Schooling: The Perils of Pragmatism in Christian Attitudes Toward the Liberal Arts by Robin Phillips https://t.co/wh5X6dP63s, A post shared by Robin Phillips (@robin__phillips), Nine Things I Wish Someone Had Told Me About Parenting Teenagers, Barbados Sea Turtles and the Desire For God, G.K. Chesterton and the Sacramental Imagination, Interview with Ancient Faith about Gratitude in Lifes Trenches, The AI Apocalypse is Happening Right Nowbut not in the way you think, Virtue and Classical Education: A Commencement Address to a Graduating Class, understand ancient texts through the lens of their original context. But hes appropriately describing it to help you make that connection, because what are the gospels? So probably the most famous Church Father to talk about this in terms of atonement specifically is St. AthanasiusSt. Photius: Yes, sir. Okay, but before we get to the New Testament, right? All right, well, lets just kind of mop up now. They would all say: the gospel of John and the epistle. [Laughter] No, theyve got to both be great. So Ill take the heat for that one. Fr. The important thing is just: you have to get the blood out of it. Stephen De Young is an Orthodox priest. Thats like everyones evening devotional reading right there. Fr. Stephen: But due to the frequency of the show, is it not actually Goat Fortnight? Stephen De Young's article, Here There Be Giants which, just as Farley's, was posted to the Ancient Faith Ministries website: "The V. Rev. Fr. Fr. I have two good friends who left the Orthodox church and now refer me to the Old Testament to clinch some version of the following argument: See, substitutionary atonement is real, so the Orthodox are actually heterodox when they deny this. Well folks, the Orthodox Church does teach substitutionary atonement, and if you dont believe me, read chapter 7 of The Religion of the Apostles. ,and Theyre claiming some kind of economic theory of atonement here! Yeah, no. I dont think theyre such long questions. The Whole Counsel of God on Apple Podcasts A lot of them who didnt know 2 and 3 John existed accepted 1 John. God bless you. Photius: Oh, man! Whats the deal with this super-big day of offering? Okay, so St. Matthew, he talks about Christ as being the goat that gets sent off to Azazel, right? Thank you so much! Fr. Father Stephen De Young, creator of the popular The Whole Counsel of God podcast and blog, traces the lineage of Orthodox Christianity back to the faith and witness of the apostles, which was rooted in a first-century Jewish worldview.The Religion of the Apostles presents the Orthodox Christian Church of today as a continuation of the religious life of the apostles, which in turn was a . Just as St. Peter had, St. Paul saw the light of Gods glory, and heard a voice from heaven. So it had this prominence beyond those other books. Fr. Fr. What are the actual, original words? Fr. By using our site, you agree to our collection of information through the use of cookies. Fr. But he does his complete English Bible, and he uses that phrase to one or one-ment, and then even at one point he uses at-one. And then it was in the 16th century, in the Tyndale Bible in 1526 that he actually standardizes this word to create this new word, atone, as both a verb and also a noun, so you get that at-one-ment, atone comes into being as an English word specifically for translation of the Bible. He took our infirmities upon himself. And, as you can imagine, thats taken in a certain direction. Andrew: I mean, I love that word. Stephen: Yeah, and hes often associated with other symbols like the caduceus of enlightenment and that kind of thing, but well talk about that more here in the second half. Stephen: Sin leaves a taint, not just on us. They meant, at the time, was putting man and God together at one. That was the intention. March 12, 2021 But the problemand we already talked about this a bit with Fr. Other sacrificial rituals where you see the laying-on of hands, thats to designate the animal as a sacrifice. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, and some people out there are probably like: Why are they emphasizing this? And the reason is that a lot of Reformation theology kind of hangs on the idea that the goat is being punished, that the goat does have But, again, look what it says. Fr. It does not offer a literature review or footnotes for those wishing to explore these issues further, and the bibliography is scant; instead, the book offers a more popular tone that makes it accessible to a wide readership. Okay, now we get to talk about one of my favorite placesEmmaus! This is like Joseph in Genesis. But, yeah, the goat for Azazel has sins placed upon it, in contrast for the goat for Yahweh. Fr. Dont wait: go buy yourself a copy of The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century. What is being atoned for? Fr. Fr. But the Bible indicates that the Nephilim reappeared after presumably being killed off in the Flood. Andrew: Yes, right, so the idea is to take the sins of the people and get them out of the place where sin does not belong. I do I will say, I acknowledge the King James Bible has some errors in it, translation errorsand we just lost all of our KJV-only listeners the one. Were about to talk now about how hes also the goat for Yahweh, but I just wanted to link these two things together actually from a very familiar bit of hymnography for Orthodox Christians, and thats from the doxology, whether the little doxology or the great doxology, if I remember correctly, this line is in both, where we sing, O Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father, who takest away the sin of the world; have mercy on us, O thou who takest away the sins of the world. Okay, so he takes away the sin of the world and the sins of the world. Fr. Immediately after they are mentioned, Genesis goes on to discuss how the heart and minds of people became continually evil, and Gods flood judgement in response. When Christ says hes sanctifying himself, its not as if he was unholy before and hes doing some action; that him sanctifying himself is talking about his incarnation, his earthly life, and his coming death, in which he has sanctified himself, his person, in order that his disciples in all ages would be sanctified, would be made holy. Stephen De Young concludes the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 11. Fr. If you didnt get a chance to call in during the live broadcast, wed love to hear from you either via email at [email protected], or you can message us at our Lord of Spirits podcast Facebook page. The Very Rev. The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Fr. Stephen: Or even mercy-seat bands, if we want to be really old school. Awesome. Lord of Spirits: Sons of God, Equal to the Angels. Stephen: So, yeah, Im actually not answering your question. Oh, man, whats happening here? [Laughter] I just need to read this word. This isnt just kind of Christians coming up with allegorical ways to read the Old Testament, to read Jesus into it. Stephens book with glee, looking forward to having ammunition with which to spar with the next Protestant who told me that all we need is the Scriptures, or the next Orthodox or Catholic who told me that all we need is Scripture plus the Patristics. Stephen: When a pe gets doubled, it gets pronounced like a P instead of an F. Thats why its usually written with two Ps. Rather, the doctrine of God being multiple hypostases was already widely accepted even before the incarnation. And this is very important, because, in our modern era, a lot of people will take these descriptions of what happens at Christs death, and the hymns about them that were going to sing in Holy Week in a few weeks, and label them as anti-Semitic. [Laughter] Its the opposite! Its this annual thing, so it must be a really big deal. It says that Christ is the atonement or the propitiation for our sins, not for ours only but also for the whole world. On the Origin of Watchers: A Comparative Study of the Antediluvian Wisdom in Mesopotamian and Jewish Traditions, The Antediluvian Origin of Evil in the Mesopotamian and Jewish Traditions A Comparative Study, Response to Ken Ammi's review of my paper - "Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic? . Andrew: Yeah, right, exactly. Dan: I have two questions, if thats okay. Fr. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown" (Genesis 6:1-4)-period (keep the "reliably" qualifier in mind). So those are some of my take-aways from our conversation this evening. Andrew: So its not like the Slavic word that has to do with a gross-tasting bubbling beverage, kefir? How does God make it happen?. Fr. Theyre cursing him; hes taking away their sins. So cool! Fr. Fr. But what hes on to is what St. Matthew was talking about. Fr. Okay, but before we get to the actual New Testament, theres some stuffsurprise, surprise, Lord of Spirits listeners!theres other literature that surrounds the New Testament that informs whats going on in the New Testament.
Antique Steamer Trunk Manufacturers, Borger Texas Jail Roster, Wreck Diving Wilmington, Nc, Articles F